Balancers

[Rain]

For the most part, Seraphyna's article doesn't strike a wrong chord with me. It's completely possible for me to go "this is relatively correct" without having the sensation that accompanies incorrect or bad choices. This leads me to believe that the most of it, keeping the exact numbers aside, is true.

However, it could also be that she is simply writing another page in the book of knowledge rather than writing over one. Contradicting information would alert me to something off, but it's possible I have zero information on balancers, meaning there are no contradictions between what I have and what she has said.

I do agree with Iro in some areas, however -- namely, love, as I cannot, for the life of me, see it happening, especially in beings that are meant to keep balance or in people who harbor enough power to destroy almost anything they want.

A more likely scenario would be that "Balancer" is an occupation as opposed to an existence (you are not born a lawyer, with everything you will ever need to be a lawyer). You might be given only one occupation choice after you are created (you are to be a lawyer, and only a lawyer), but you are not "born" a lawyer.

As for being recycled or recreated, that's most likely to keep power from entering the wrong hands. It's a little counter-intuitive to give so much power, fit only for a balancer, into the hands of somebody else who could quite possibly create a major imbalance. With the current power you have, I could see you being pressed into the job, but not created for its sole purpose.

Maybe the universes needed extra balancing because the current balancers couldn't handle it themselves, so the Creator you mentioned created temporary ones that would eventually go on to become something else (thanks to that little thing called love), typically after the number of natural balancers increased or the problem was fixed.

[Rain]

I've talked to shadows, rakshasas, demons, angels, fauns, elementals, "oil sprites," and machine genii, amongst plenty of other non-human entities.

Really?

If it's not too much to ask, perhaps you could recount these discussions? I am very interested in hearing about these.

[Iro]

They are many and long (generally), but sure, though not in this thread - it'd be off topic.

[Motley]

I don't really have a problem with the story in terms of what happened. I do have a problem with the scale, however.

Scale is one of those things that is very hard for a being to get a true handle on. Afterall, humans used to think they were the center of the universe, and some still do. Actually, they are the center of their own existence, which from a psychological standpoint means that it is true in a subjective way.

From personal experience, the more energy I channel, the less human I get in terms of my thinking. I actually consider it to be a drawback, and I'll only do it with good reason. Quite frankly, it can be scary. So I am also of the opinion that more powerful beings do not react to things in human ways.

The human in me understand the tale. The celestial in me does not.

[House Hesson]

For the most part, Seraphyna's article doesn't strike a wrong chord with me. It's completely possible for me to go "this is relatively correct" without having the sensation that accompanies incorrect or bad choices. This leads me to believe that the most of it, keeping the exact numbers aside, is true.

Do you generally accept as truth anything that isn't demonstrably false? I'd be wary of that - confirmation bias is a b****.

-Nonny

[Seraphyna]

First, what do you mean by "order" and "chaos"? Are we talking in terms of entropy, ideology, action, or something else entirely?

We're talking the two fundamental "types" of energy that make up all existance.

Second, define "planes" and "multiverse."

You could call it the universe, I think multiverse is a better title for it. Planes would be different "worlds," different universes making up the multiverse for lack of better words.

Your description of keeping balance contains a contradiction: first you explain that you must maintain balance on an individual plane because if you do not it will implode and existence will end, then you say that the job is actually only about multiversal balance and not singular planar balance. Which is it?

I said that lack of balance on an individual plane will not be good for that individual plane, not that all existance would cease to exist if one plane fell out of balance. I said that if the balance among all planes was majorly disrupted then existance would cease to exist.

As for all of us having "innate knowledge of what balance is," that's like saying that we all have innate knowledge of what the color blue is. Language is a tool used by people to communicate their thoughts without the benefits of telepathy - it's a medium we try to agree upon so as to understand each other. Please, what do you mean by "balance"?

Yes, language is. As beings with direct links to each other and the Source/Creator/All we do have innate knowledge. We are created with it and the connections to maintain it. You can't give a human example as there isn't one.

From what you say, I'm sure many philosophers and physicists would love to study you - you'd answer so many questions and throw out all of their theories. Since you're currently human and living within a human society, wouldn't it be good of you to contribute to that society by enlightening the rest of us as to the very nature of the universe? Maybe we can help maintain "balance."

I have my beliefs on what I am, what we do, and all that comes with it. I have a human understanding of things and am only capable of translating knowledge on a human level. Thus, no I couldn't throw out all theories, etc. as the universe is far too complex a concept for the human mind to ever completely understand. I don't presume to currently understand it.

Overall, I'm perplexed: your "race" is not only a group of spirits tasked with maintaining balance (whatever that is) in the multiverse (whatever that may be), but was created specifically for that purpose, yet your race is capable of falling in love which, as you say, is completely antithetical to your job. Wouldn't it have been easier for the "universal consciousness" to create, say, something that's incapable of falling in love (say a force) if falling in love had the potential for ending all of existence?

First off, I never said a balancer falling in love would end all existance, so I don't know where you got that. Second, creating a race devoid of capabilities would be to remove some of their free will.

Furthermore, plenty of humans with great power - CEOs, presidents, monarchs, judges, police officers, and mayors all have responsibilities outside of their married lives, yet they are all not only allowed to marry but it is rare for them not to be married and further are still able to maintain their niches. I'd think a race as powerful and wise as yours would be equally capable of that.

Again, this is a human example. My race has too much to deal with, too much power, and too much responsibility.

More than just that, I'm flabbergasted that no one has called shenanigans on this. Thirteen or so beings to maintain incredibly important physical and metaphysical fluctuations and constants, all of whom are able to fall in love but shouldn't? I'd imagine that all of you falling in love with mortals would work well to counter-balance each other: that's practically how the Olympians worked. Come to think of it, there were from twelve to fourteen of them: six of the first generation (Demeter, Hades, Hera, Hestia, Poseidon, and Zeus), one from Zeus and Metis (Athena), two by Hera (Ares and Hephaistos), two by Leto (Apollo and Artemis), one by Maia (Hermes), one by Semele (Dionysus), and one suggested to be from Uranus (Aphrodite). They had your level of power and knowledge, according to myth, and did similarly broad things as "maintaining balance." They also had ambassadors (nymphs, satyrs, monsters, priests, and oracles). Really, the only difference is that you haven't been associated with the label "god" or "deity."

We haven't been labeled deities because we aren't. We predate human mythos, so to presume a link is just wrong. I also find it offensive that you are "flabbergasted that no one has called shenanigans on this". These are my memories and my beliefs. I'm sure you'd find it offensive if someone said to you "oh, you claim to be an elf? must be a RPer...eh, shenanigans". It's fine if you don't share my beliefs, it's fine if you don't think they're possible of being remotely "true". It's not okay that you lack respect completely.

I've talked to shadows, rakshasas, demons, angels, fauns, elementals, "oil sprites," and machine genii, amongst plenty of other non-human entities.

Really? I'm tempted to call shenanigans on this.

The background information you have provided about your former psychology, such as falling in love, is more human than any of these far less non-human beings, yet your race is a cosmological force! That's not far-fetched, that's insulting to our intelligence.

Yes, we are. Currently I'm human. Everything I say, think, do, etc. is as a human and through a human lense. Of course my descriptions will sound "human". It would be preposterous to think otherwise. I'm sorry that the common sense obvious reason is "insulting to (your) intelligence".

Please, have some decency: we may believe we aren't human, but even those of us who have Elven Princess Syndrome don't make claims that are better applied to the objects of worship of the various world religions.

Again, you don't have to believe me or agree with me. You do, however, have to act with some respect. You claiming to have spoken to all kinds of noncorporeal beings (I guess you meant in this life as a human) is more far fetcher than beliefs about one's kin race.

[Rain]

For the most part, Seraphyna's article doesn't strike a wrong chord with me. It's completely possible for me to go "this is relatively correct" without having the sensation that accompanies incorrect or bad choices. This leads me to believe that the most of it, keeping the exact numbers aside, is true.

Do you generally accept as truth anything that isn't demonstrably false? I'd be wary of that - confirmation bias is a b****.

-Nonny

No, I accept it as a possibility and lean towards it being false if things that I have experienced point towards it being false.

If you would have included the sentence following, you would have seen that. With nothing to prove it either true or false, it is simply information floating in a void until something comes along and messes with it. Simply disregarding it due to lack of confirmation is just as bad as believing it to be true without proof of falsity. It just "is", at the moment.

[House Hesson]

Nonny didn't get (and I don't get) where the next sentence gives that information, so thank you for clarifying.

-Cat

[Selcar]

Some comments and questions from another energy being!

Balancers are beings whose task it is to maintain as much of a balance as possible between order and chaos across all planes/realms/etc. in the multiverse.

The opening statement is a bit of sticky one for me, as the definition one has of order, chaos and balance is fairly subjective depending on the person reading it, for me chaos and order are abstract concepts (like hot and cold) and not quantifiable. I do not think that 'chaos' if experienced, could be experienced by any rational mind - any sort of "chaotic" act of experience seems to be rooted in order (of cause and affect).

We are described as everything and nothing ...

This must make individuality, incarnation, reincarnation rather difficult. Wouldn't it?

My theory on our forms is that we have one dominant form for each element including light and dark/shadow.

Why would this be? Why would light/dark/ and the elements be linked with balance between chaos and order?

Balance was most often achieved by directly going to a plane/realm/etc., and appearing to choice individuals to thereby influence them in the hope that they would eventually come to produce a desired result.

I cannot comprehend how this would work, especially on the large scale of a multiverse, as proposed. It seems like appearing and influencing an individual at a time, would be not only slow work, but holding very little impact on the larger scale. Could you explain a bit more, maybe how an individual can be "ordered" or "chaotic"? (at least without being insane, as having a cognitive disorder in which one's thinking does not progress rationally. As in answering "Banana" to "How are you?" - but even that example is poor as the person is ordered enough to be capable of words).

It’s kind of like how people here on earth might see an angel or the Virgin Mary and then become a “holy person,” lending guidance to others, leading them toward order. On the other hand, they might see a “satanic” apparition and lead people toward chaos.

This seems to imply that Order = good, Chaos = Evil.

So what do I mean by balance? Balance is not a state of half order half chaos. It is not static, but fluid. Balance is forever shifting and changing.

I don't quite understand the meaning of balance here still.

The aim is for neither order nor chaos to become so dominant that it threatens to take over.

It would seem, to me, that everything that we currently know of this world, and this universe, and how it works - that order is easily dominant over chaos.

There must be a good amount of both in order for something to be balanced.

This seems like a fallacious statement, even if I did follow that order and chaos are quantifiable - couldn't they be balanced in a small amount? A ton of lead and a ton of feathers balance each other just as much as a pound of feathers and a pound of lead, no?

There is chaos in order and order in chaos and too much of one is never a good thing.

Two sentiments that I do not agree with, and think they sound a little cliche, to be honest. By what reasoning do you assert that order has chaos within it, and visa versa? I am also of the thinking that even one instance of chaos within the human mind would cause a great deal of cognitive problems..

If one were to take over, the plane/realm/etc. would implode and existence would cease to exist. The preservation of existence is our purpose.

It seems counter intuitive to me, that there needs to be individuals created and placed into full time roles to keep naturally occurring events within the mutliverse to keep it from imploding in on itself.

We also don’t have the same forms, other than winged humanoid (we all have a form like that).

Why humanoid?

We also do not work alone. While there are only so many Balancers proper, there are individuals across all planes who we work with.

Have you come across any earth based myths on creatures that resemble balancers?

We were forbidden to love, for love destroys neutrality.

My sort were not given emotions - because they were not needed for our roles/jobs. Why would the ability to love (an individual) be given when it was not allowed? It seems like poor programming.

Doing what we do is not only all we know, but fulfilling one’s purpose gives an individual deep satisfaction and joy.

However, I am also human and Balancer 24 hours a day, every day.

Do you do anything in your current incarnation to maintain the balance? Also, I have to say that the ability to be "burned out" on the work of duties seems counter intuitive to be able to feel - especially being able to be take vacation if it's a vital role, and there are few Balancers to begin with. Seems like it could all be avoided.

Additional Feedback: The last two paragraphs come off mostly with information that could be true for any person, and the amount of times one's "power levels" are mentioned tend to give the article a bit of a shady feeling towards it.

(Edit: Moar)

We're talking the two fundamental "types" of energy that make up all existance.

If they're types of energy (which, what makes one unit of measurement of energy chaotic, and another ordered?) how can influencing individuals towards chaos or order chance the balance of the two within a plane?

Second, creating a race devoid of capabilities would be to remove some of their free will.

Something about this doesn't quite sit right with me, both the usage of "Free will" seems to be a bit of a sticky term to use (another subjective term, that could mean different things to different people, let alone even be questioned on it's existent). To be the logic of it would be simple - Loving an individual would be detrimental, thus do not give them the ability to love an individual (as love would only hinder their role). Secondly, I'm not sure what one is able to experience/feel would count under free-will - there are limits to what anything could feel, after all. Thirdly, such a statement would seem to imply that only Balancers have Free Will - as their role is to influence individuals away or towards chaos/order, thus preventing the free will of everyone else within the multiverse to choose for themselves.

I've talked to shadows, rakshasas, demons, angels, fauns, elementals, "oil sprites," and machine genii, amongst plenty of other non-human entities.

Really? I'm tempted to call shenanigans on this.

We've got Shadows, Rakshasas, demons and angels on this board alone

[Seraphyna]

This must make individuality, incarnation, reincarnation rather difficult. Wouldn't it?

The only individuality we have is which "forms" we prefer, our "minds" for lack of a better word, how we do things, that sort of thing. Our purpose is the same, our abilities are the same, and our base "form" of winged humanoid is also very similar. We do not incarnate often.

Why would this be? Why would light/dark/ and the elements be linked with balance between chaos and order?

Well I've pieced togther the theory based on the "forms" that are dominant for me. It makes sense to me also because a little of every element would make us balanced from an elemental affinity standpoint as well.

I cannot comprehend how this would work, especially on the large scale of a multiverse, as proposed. It seems like appearing and influencing an individual at a time, would be not only slow work, but holding very little impact on the larger scale. Could you explain a bit more, maybe how an individual can be "ordered" or "chaotic"?

The idea is that if you influence the right individuals, they do the work for you. It's also why there are many beings "trained" (again for lack of a better word) to be our emissaries of sorts and to further the "cause" without us being directly needed.

Well everyone has both in them, the question is what kind of balance is there between the two within said individual. Chaotic people are insane, ordered people tend to end up as spiritual advisors such as monks, priests, priestesses, etc. Those being the ends of the spectrum. Everyone else is some sort of in between.

This seems to imply that Order = good, Chaos = Evil.

It was the first example that came to mind. I blame being raised Catholic. No I don't mean to imply that ordered=good, chaos=evil. Good and evil are relative and many would consider them to be human concepts.

I don't quite understand the meaning of balance here still.

Balance is a shifting equilibrium between order and chaos. So long as one doesn't take over, it's balanced. In human terms, after 80% of one 20% the other, the scale tends to seriously tip in one direction.

It would seem, to me, that everything that we currently know of this world, and this universe, and how it works - that order is easily dominant over chaos.

I wouldn't necessarily say that. Look at all of the crises, wars, etc. in human history.

This seems like a fallacious statement, even if I did follow that order and chaos are quantifiable - couldn't they be balanced in a small amount? A ton of lead and a ton of feathers balance each other just as much as a pound of feathers and a pound of lead, no?

Yes, they could. But small amounts of energy don't make up beings and existance. There's a good deal of energy making up creation in its entirety. That statement was referring to the multiverse, not an individual.

Two sentiments that I do not agree with, and think they sound a little cliche, to be honest. By what reasoning do you assert that order has chaos within it, and visa versa? I am also of the thinking that even one instance of chaos within the human mind would cause a great deal of cognitive problems..

If you look at chaos theory...eventually the "chaos" becomes an ordered pattern...becomes order. If you take something that's completely ordered eventually it either goes on to monotony or snaps...flipping over to chaos. The latter point is especially evident in the minds of many beings. Too much of order leads to some kind of internal break. I don't think that any amount of chaos in a human would lead to cognitive issues. Again I'm talking in an energetic sense. We (by we I mean the human soul, not the body...obviously humans aren't energetic beings) aren't made of just one "type" of energy. We're a bit of both.

It seems counter intuitive to me, that there needs to be individuals created and placed into full time roles to keep naturally occurring events within the mutliverse to keep it from imploding in on itself.

Shifts in balance are natural and expected. One "type" of energy becoming dominant is not natural.

Why humanoid?

Probably because humanoid relates best to the most beings we come across. There's a reason just about every angel is described as "winged humanoid".

Have you come across any earth based myths on creatures that resemble balancers?

Personally? No. But I have been told by one person that we remind them of a Boddhisatva (I probably spelled that wrong).

My sort were not given emotions - because they were not needed for our roles/jobs. Why would the ability to love (an individual) be given when it was not allowed? It seems like poor programming.

This one I've already answered.

Do you do anything in your current incarnation to maintain the balance? Also, I have to say that the ability to be "burned out" on the work of duties seems counter intuitive to be able to feel - especially being able to be take vacation if it's a vital role, and there are few Balancers to begin with. Seems like it could all be avoided.

I do not. Vacation means I have no contact with "home" and have no "higher purpose" besides enjoying being human. How is "burn out" counterintuitive to emotion? "Vacation time" is avoided if possible, but as I've said already we are a limited number of our kind, but do not work alone.

Additional Feedback: The last two paragraphs come off mostly with information that could be true for any person, and the amount of times one's "power levels" are mentioned tend to give the article a bit of a shady feeling towards it.

Yes, they could, and they're also true for me. Since it was an article about me and my kind I felt it should be included. Yes, I do know that people will look at the power thing and but again, it's an article about us so as much as I knew what reaction it would eventually get, it had to be included.

If they're types of energy (which, what makes one unit of measurement of energy chaotic, and another ordered?) how can influencing individuals towards chaos or order chance the balance of the two within a plane?

When creation began, there was the primal/primordial (people use them interchangeably I've noticed) chaos. (This isn't just me spewing crap, this is actually what many people I've spoken to have said.) The chaos was so unpredictable and unstable that some opposing energy had to be created from it. Thus began the "taming" of it into chaos and it's opposing energy: order. Yes, there is still primal/primordial chaos out there, but in trace amounts.

Thirdly, such a statement would seem to imply that only Balancers have Free Will - as their role is to influence individuals away or towards chaos/order, thus preventing the free will of everyone else within the multiverse to choose for themselves.

Actually, it doesn't. Influence is not direct order. Yes, we try to steer people. However, it is mostly steering people toward where they're heading in the first place. Encouraging dreams, inspiring thoughts.

Shadows, Rakshasas, demons and angels on this board alone

I'm waiting for clarification on what Iro means. I'm aware we have a ton of kin types about, but technically we're humans at the moment so Iro would be talking to humans. From his responses it sounds like he means that he's spoken to them as they are...via the astral or who knows what.